Matt Zambrio: Hi everyone, welcome back. Our next session is a panel discussion on mastering abandonment flows, how to recover lost sales across the customer journey. With us we have Matias Mancheno, Customer Success Manager at Omnisend, supporting merchants in creating personalized, revenue-driven emails and SMS campaigns. We also have Ian Misner, co-founder at Kestrel, focused on building tools and solutions for WordPress businesses and developers. Welcome guys, how you doing today?

Matias Mancheno: Hello Matt, thank you very much for the introduction. Hello everybody, happy to be here, and yes, we’re going to talk all about flows today, I believe. And happy to be joined by Ian today, I’m pretty sure he’s going to know a lot of things that I probably don’t know, and hopefully between the two of us, we can give you a lot of new ideas and new inspiration for your marketing.

Matt Zambrio: Well, we’re really excited to have you both here today. Ian, anything you want to say before I dive into our questions?

Ian Misner: No, I appreciate it, thanks for having me.

Matt Zambrio: Yeah, absolutely. All right, so first question we have for you, where in the customer journey do you see the highest abandonment rates, and why do you think they happen there?

Matias Mancheno: Perfect. So if everything is okay, I’ll start some slides so the audience can also have a look at the pointers and we can talk on top of that. Give a second here, I’ll be sharing the screen, but until that, you can start speaking, Ian.

Ian Misner: Yeah, absolutely. For me this really comes down to how you define abandonment. The customer journey does start before the cart, so ultimately, when we talk about abandonment flows, we definitely are thinking primarily about the drop-off that happens after products are added to the cart, but it’s really important to start thinking about the overall experience. Once someone lands on the site, are you building their trust, are you showing them the things they need to care about the cart they are building on your store? Any moment of hesitation can really cause things to drop off.

So UX early on the product page, helping build that trust as items get added, but also just making sure that you’re meeting and exceeding the expectations you set along the way. Now, demonstrating that trust throughout the journey can be really challenging, of course, but it really comes down to risking overcommunication. Yeah, go for it, though, I see the slides are up.

Matias Mancheno: Perfect. So I agree a lot with what Ian is saying, and to be very specific, I’m going to talk from the perspective of the email marketing company where I’m part of, so from Omnisend’s perspective, and how brands perform in this regard. Most of these flows are going to be global regardless of the channel or the specific tools you’re using. But in our case, from what we’ve noticed, the most abandonment is happening at checkout, and there’s some reasons people abandon here, many of them. We have run certain surveys and analyzed the market, since this is one of our major cases and also a very high-revenue tool for our customers in a passive way without having to use active campaigns.

And in many cases it’s because when people have reached the checkout stage, when the intention to buy is already that close to becoming a solid result, is that you start showing new fees or shipping fees that they probably weren’t aware of before. And in many cases that makes a big difference, because for low-value products it might be that the whole fee you pay for shipments will come higher than the product itself, so in many cases, and we’re talking about 70 to 75% of people have abandoned the cart at this stage. So it’s a very big number, and just to give a rough estimate, from what we found, around 18 billion dollars annually are being left there in the cart because of these specific reasons.

So then also the forced account creation. This depends on how you are managing your store and doing marketing, if you are really relying on customers to provide that extra information and give you an account, that will create friction, extra steps, and it will create that friction in the head of the customer, avoiding them going through with the purchase, taking a longer time checking competitors, going and finding the product somewhere else. So this small friction, when you are in a high-pace market, it really pays a toll. And then you can also have slow delivery times, that break expectations, people were expecting to receive some goods quickly, and eventually they realize it’s not going to come when they want and it just breaks down there.

So in many cases the idea here is to understand, when are you informing your customers about every hidden fee? Are you leaving everything until the end? Maybe you are informing them in advance once they have abandoned the cart, just set it up and be like, okay, this is what’s going to happen once you have added a product to cart, this is what’s going to come in your way, and inform customers about that, because when you have a customer database and they are repeating purchases and coming back to you, they must be aware of what you’re willing to offer, and what you are requesting from them to finish a purchase.

And just to answer the question in general, this is the place where we see the most abandonment, at least in the email marketing world, and in many cases it’s also the most important flow that all marketers can have enabled just to have passive income. So put these two things together and think of the relevance of clarifying how things should be from the beginning, that would really help you sort this step up.

Ian Misner: Maybe just a little bit of a layer of nuance to tie our answers together, it’s not necessarily that the checkout or the cart is where the abandonment is triggered, but it is the most actionable area. If you haven’t done a lot of optimization yet, this is the area to start, because everything else will be magnified by good results here.

Matt Zambrio: Right, yeah, I would say that’s probably the number one reason I drop off anytime I’m trying to buy something, is I wasn’t expecting that shipping fee, I’m like, you know what, that’s a little too high, let me go look elsewhere and see if I can get that price down. So, follow-up question around that, do you approach cart abandonment differently from checkout abandonment, or do you treat them the same? Ian, you can go ahead.

Ian Misner: Yeah, for me, I do actually consider building the cart to be very different from actually landing on the checkout page and making a decision. You’re still at that consideration stage, the experience of browsing around a store and looking at all the things, clicking add to cart, might be a signal of interest but not necessarily of intent. So I look at optimizing your shop archive pages and your single product pages as a separate activity, separate task. That being said, the checkout itself, if they’ve gotten to that point where they’re entering an email address or typing in a credit card number and haven’t clicked place order yet, that is somebody who’s shown meaningful intent to purchase, that’s somebody right at that point where if you lose them then it’s because you’ve broken some commitment, either something you’ve already told them or something implied by the product or the UX or whatever.

Matias Mancheno: I definitely agree 100% with what Ian said in both ways. First, once you’re in the checkout stage is the highest intent of purchase already, and the reason people abandon it is going to be from what we said previously, a slow user experience, they didn’t go ahead because it was too complicated, they didn’t understand where to put things, it was too overwhelming. But I 100% agree that every single stage of abandonment, in my opinion, should be treated as a separate path. So every single stage, from the moment they enter your website, when you’re giving them the welcome, when you’re offering them something to sign up to your newsletter, when they are abandoning certain products, when they are viewing things around your store, wherever you can be targeting them, and then sequentially the cart and checkout, they could be the same in a way.

Because the content could be similar at some points, and for many stores and markets it will be a pretty similar experience for the user, but in my experience it’s best to separate them as much as possible. So as Ian said, the person adding products to cart might just want to have it there because they are browsing through a lot of things, and in the end they might not even end up purchasing that product but replace it with something they looked at later. So that gives you the whole idea of what you must do in those stages, if a person is a sort of window shopper looking around, not really committed to purchase yet, because it happens to all of us, we are browsing, adding products to cart, and then we’ve never opened that website again in our lives.

So you need to know what you want to communicate to those people abandoning the cart, maybe they didn’t find what they were looking for, you’re probably going to suggest them something similar, or something that other people who were looking at the same thing purchased. While the checkout one is mostly trying to convince the person to take that last step, trying to ask, okay, what happened, what disrupted your flow that you didn’t finish your purchase, what interrupted the way things were going?

And one thing that’s very important here is a relative persistence when you’re communicating with this. I have experienced through time that many brands, many markets, are just having a single touch point whenever somebody abandons whatever stage of the purchase, and the single touch point is not going to make a difference in the long term. Just to put it in numbers, if 40% of the audience you sent a reminder to was reacting to it, opening it, clicking on it, and in the end converting, there’s the other 60% that potentially could still be there, especially at the checkout stage. So I’m pretty sure Ian will agree, they need that extra touch, and I would advise anybody preparing these flows to approach them at least a couple of times, to think of what you can offer in order to convince somebody who is not willing to purchase at the first intent, if you have the possibility to offer something, go ahead with it, why not.

Ian Misner: Yeah, and I agree fully, especially at the checkout stage. I would also throw in there that before, during the cart, when they’re still building a cart, still adding to the cart, your goal at that point should still actually be about presenting them with content or other products that help them feel closer to the value they’re seeking. You’re not actually getting to that point of trying to close the sale, trying to get them to transact, you’re really just continuing to build trust at that stage, present them with more opportunity. But once you get them into the checkout flow, multiple touch points, absolutely, if they got to the point where they started to type out their personal information, and especially with larger carts, take the time, invest the effort, that certainly pulled me back into certain sites myself when I started that process.

Matt Zambrio: So how soon after should you reach out after somebody has abandoned cart, what’s the balance between being helpful versus being pushy?

Ian Misner: Yeah, I mean, right off the top I think the very first notification should be within a couple of hours at the latest, they’ve left, get back top of mind as soon as possible. Now as far as that question of when does it feel more spammy or overdoing it, that varies significantly across industry, stores, who your customer is and how they got there, so I don’t think there is one right answer, there’s a lot of experimentation necessary for your individual store. I will say though, on average, three touch points across about a week, so one within a couple of hours, one within a day or two, one about a week later, is usually a safe starting point. Matias, I’m sure you have a lot more experience.

Matias Mancheno: I think you said almost everything I wanted to say, because it’s exactly the same as I would suggest, and actually that’s based on the research that has been done for the specific purpose. So you don’t want to be too quick to remind your customers that something must be done, you don’t want to be too quick to call them to action, because then you’re most likely going to lose them, you’re going to be spammy without wanting to. So give them the time, let them cook a little bit, let them think. Of course during this time you may be thinking in your head, they are looking at competitors, looking somewhere else, thinking where else they can purchase it, but with you, you can be certain that if they have reached a checkout, they were pretty much convinced they wanted to make this purchase with you.

So you can take your time, let them make the decision, curate your content, make it as personal and unique as possible for that single customer. And then, as Ian said, follow up with a certain strategy behind it, and here depending on the capabilities of the tools you’re using, also understand what they have done with that first reminder, have they reacted to it, have they opened it, clicked on it? Based on that, am I going to customize even further what the second one is going to be, for those that opened and those that didn’t? Am I going to see that the people that didn’t open maybe need an extra push, maybe I’m going to throw a discount there if I can, maybe some extra value I could offer.

And then of course a third one after a little bit, in this case I said not to let more than three days pass, but within a week to have those three touch points, I think is more than enough. And just, one thing we can both agree and everybody else would assume from common sense, don’t do more than that, unless you really think it’s necessary, unless you see that the metrics of every one of the reminders you send are still very good, then maybe follow up, but be very conscious of that.

Ian Misner: Yeah, in my experience the first email is going to result in over half of the success of the total campaign, the very first reminder is enough that it’ll bring them back, the cart will be waiting for them, they’ll wrap that up. The second and third offers, it really is about that experimentation, and I like what you have on the slide here, social proof, maybe a light incentive on that third attempt, and that’s what you should experiment with first. Don’t start adding or removing a bunch of stuff, don’t worry about timing as much until you’ve found the offer that makes each email as effective as it can be, definitely test both, but I would start with finding the right offer.

Matias Mancheno: One thing I forgot to say, that I think Ian said and I didn’t build on top of, is test, don’t be afraid to test. No audience is the same, no market is the same, no industry is the same, so I can tell you one hour right now, but maybe for your customers it’s 30 minutes, maybe one day, maybe you’re selling very high-price items, maybe for your customers it’s going to be three or four days. So test both paths, see which one is performing better, and stick to one, no need to follow the line, it’s always better to experiment in time.

Matt Zambrio: No, that’s great, and you know what I take away from that? Wait for that third email, sounds like that’s when my discount code or free shipping might be coming in, so don’t pull that trigger immediately. So with those follow-ups, what channels do you recommend or have you seen be most effective for recovering that, is it email, SMS, push notifications, retargeting ads, what do you recommend?

Ian Misner: Yeah, I have a very simple answer for this one, I’m sure you’ll have a lot more, Matias. Email’s cheap and there’s a million blog posts on the best way to do it, I would recommend always start with email. Now, I do think SMS has a huge opportunity to be even more effective for certain types of stores, but I think there’s a little more risk of doing SMS wrong, unless you’re using a tool with good guardrails or you understand the best practices, you can mess that up a lot easier and upset people more than you help your store, so I think that’s something to play safe. Retargeting is super effective as well, I know you have that on the list, I view that a little differently, but for big-ticket items, if your average order size is big enough that you can meaningfully run retargeting ads, that’s great, but I think that’s even more niche than SMS. So I would move down this tier of email to SMS to retargeting ads, and then push notifications I’ve never really experimented with, but mobile-first might be something there.

Matias Mancheno: I agree 100% with Matt, sorry, with Ian, and one thing that could settle down the comment Ian said a little bit more is that email has been there for so long and it still remains pretty much the same as it ever was, and it really shows, the results haven’t changed. If anything they have become better because the infrastructure is much bigger and the accessibility of the population to the internet and all these tools is much greater than before, so it hasn’t lost power. Maybe people in fields that are not marketing-related may think email is already an obsolete tool that you’re just using for work purposes, but when you start with that conscious mind of, I’m a customer and I’m receiving 100 emails a day from brands, then you can start thinking about the magnitude of email and how big it is.

And as Ian said, it’s going to be always the cheapest of all your potential channels. And I second what he said about SMS, I think SMS is still a very powerful tool but you have to be extremely strategic and careful about it, because unlike an email it’s harder to ignore, so you would definitely be like, who is this guy texting me, the typical person reads every text they get, the typical person does not read every email they get, so the value of being in their hand is definitely meaningful. Now there’s two things, one is on the slide here, using channels together, your SMS campaign needs to be aware of your email campaign, if anything you should weave them together, have that be part of the steps.

It also gets to the segmentation of your audience, if you have a membership program or loyalty rewards program and you get people to opt into SMS via that and then also use it for cart recovery, then it’s more than just an official checked-the-box opt-in, have they volunteered to let you text them, do they really expect you as a brand to send them that type of communication? And again that comes to that question of trust and building it early. But SMS gets a lot more interesting with recurring customers and lifetime customer value, more so than recovering a sale on an initial cart.

Ian Misner: Definitely.

Matias Mancheno: And I think it’s pretty much, also legally regarding GDPR and all this compliance, you face much more risk making a mistake within the SMS world than you would with email. And for instance push notifications, such an underestimated channel, because it has a lot of value for what it represents, it can be more massive, and it does no harm if you do it wrong, in many cases people can just opt out very easily without causing any trouble to your list, to your reputation. So I think, and one thing Ian mentioned here that’s very important, combine them, and in this case use them as the fallback options, if I have a sequence of emails coming in, first, second, third, and there’s still a percentage that didn’t open any of them, then maybe I nudge them with an SMS, and probably that’s when they’re going to react because, as he said, most likely people are going to see it, unlike the email they probably won’t see, they are ignoring it on purpose.

Matt Zambrio: Yeah, I think my wife would fall into that category with her 10,000 unread emails, that SMS push actually might get her to take some action, I think those messages are getting lost in that inbox somewhere along the way. So with that said, how do you personalize abandonment recovery messages to increase that chance of a conversion? I love what you said about the balance of it, maybe the two emails before you get to the text, I think that makes a lot of sense, so where does that personalization come in?

Ian Misner: Yeah, well, right off the hop, I’m going to caution on personalization, I know this is an aside to the question. The amount of room you have to experiment, how successful your store already is, should inform how much custom solutions you put in place for a personalized campaign. There’s a few things that are very obvious that I would consider even for a relatively new or smaller store, like if you have a very expensive product, if you sell fireplaces and fireplace accessories, maybe you have a different campaign for a fireplace than all the stuff that goes around it, so if your average order value has these wings, maybe don’t wait for experimentation. But personalization around different campaigns for people who already know your brand well versus people who are relatively new is another area that’s pretty straightforward and can be done for just about anybody. But broadly speaking, something like a cart recovery campaign, if you start with a three-email template and just send the same thing to everybody, you’re getting 80% of the results, so personalization comes with optimization, you’ve already got the basics in place and then you want to start getting clever about it to get from 80% to 100%.

Matias Mancheno: I think everything is there already, and I would agree that almost all the job is done without personalization, but with personalization you reach that little percentage of people that wasn’t reacting, so you add on top of it, it’s the extra value, your added effort and time on personalizing emails and setting things up to be more precise, more on point, to give that extra attention. And what I would say here a little bit is what Ian touched on in the previous question, rather than personalization, in a way, segment things, to know who you send to. In many cases that can make much more difference than personalization itself, so if you’re more responsible and aware of who you’re sending to, when you’re sending them what, and the content exactly you’re sending to a specific segment you have created, that already makes all the difference regardless of whether you’re personalizing to the name and specific details of the user.

Because I think it makes much more difference, because you are acting on their intent to purchase rather than their sentimental attachment to whatever you have sent them, which I think is more thinking long-term. If you have a customer that’s already in your list for a long time and you know they are still opening your communication, still engaging, probably purchasing every once in a while, then become personal with them, create that close relationship, an awareness of your brand, some kind of care for your brand, so the name of your brand is in their head all the time. But if you are rotating your list, if you are big on ads and bringing new leads all the time, better to put the efforts in segmentation and understand who is coming when, what they want to receive, and what you’re going to do with that information they’re giving you that’s updating on a daily basis.

Ian Misner: Yeah, and one thing to tie that back to personalization, rather than creating 70 different custom paths through your website or a bunch of different flows, just early on think about the entire customer journey, who are the people that should land here, how do you make the entire experience perfect for the imagined hero customer, who’s the exact person this should be personalized for, and then just build for that person, from the landing page all the way through to the offer to the cart, personalize it for the imagined ideal person.

Matt Zambrio: So I want to bring up a question from the audience that ties in well to this topic. What URL are you using for cart and checkout abandonment, are you always sending them to the checkout page, or redirecting them to the cart page or even the homepage, what approach do you take?

Ian Misner: Well, in our product, Checkout WC, we drop them right back on the checkout page with the cart rebuilt for them, so it’s in exactly the state they left it in. Now, whether that’s ideal becomes the question, but basically you want to bring them as close to the finished transaction as possible.

Matias Mancheno: I think here it’s also coming back to the first or second question we had, how particularly specialized are you with each workflow, have you separated the stage of cart abandonment and checkout abandonment, because then definitely you would change the URLs for each. Maybe the person who abandoned the cart, as we said still looking for something, we’re going to bring them back to the cart to tell them, take the extra step, look at these other items, add something else, or maybe we don’t even bring them to the cart, just bring them to the store, the cart will be saved there and they can bring some other items on top of it. But the people already on the checkout, we don’t want to push them into doing something else because we know the purchase is closer, so maybe we redirect them to a fully completed cart or to the start of the checkout. And I think there is no definite answer for this one, if you split those flows and manage to touch each step of the customer, I believe you can split both to be completely different endings and the URLs to be completely separate.

Matt Zambrio: Oh, that’s great advice, I appreciate that. So I already shared earlier, I love a good discount that’s going to bring me back into my cart, but what are some other strategies that work just as well?

Ian Misner: Yeah, this is a great question, and right off the hop I do want to lead with, do not train your customers to expect a discount, it’s one of the worst things you can do. I’m sure you have stores, even retail stores you go to, where you know the real price and you just know it walking in, that is the worst thing you can do to your store, literally as soon as your customer base believes the discount was always available, then you just have to do that from now on. So be very cautious with discounts as a whole. Now, to Matias’s earlier slide, abandoning carts showing social proof, things that other people like you enjoyed this product in these ways, if you can get user-generated content mixed in, obviously it depends on your industry, but you can get permission to use those things, and the social proof and the trust is what matters most.

But if you want to offer something that feels tangible, you can make other commitments other than discounts. One thing is scarcity, if you have low stock, make sure it’s actually true, but show them, there’s two left, or else it might be gone forever, that’ll work on me, I don’t know about you, but that will always, I don’t even know if I want something, you tell me it’s going away forever, I will buy it, it’s 100% of the time. But even simple things, especially for smaller stores, like, if you buy from this email, I will personally go ship it out today, just make a commitment of some kind and people love that, just follow through on those little weird commitments, make sure they’re real, bring the customer back again.

Matias Mancheno: I have almost no comments to add to that, I think it’s a very good answer. But I want to second what he said about, don’t get your customers used to discounts, you have to decide if you’re going to become that store, because once you have made that decision you’re going to get that expectation from them too. So if you have decided that, then be strategic about it, within the tools you’re using understand who deserves a discount and who doesn’t, split your flows according to the amount of money they are willing to spend on you, because if it’s a higher ROI, they are spending a lot and I give them a little discount, then it’s not a big hit for me, it’s actually an extra motivation for them to convert.

So the answer here is, if you haven’t found another way to get that response from customers besides discount, be strategic about it, don’t be giving it away, don’t be making it, as Matt said before, we know it’s coming in the third email so we’re going to wait until the third email, that creates a psychology in the customer of understanding that things are coming their way eventually because you have made that so. And this value proposition can come in many other ways, it depends how often the customer is going to come back and purchase from you, how long you want to keep them, how willing you are to sacrifice other things, and also what things can you give away that are not going to harm you in any way, maybe you have some overstocked tiny-value item you can add to the basket in case they purchase that same day, could be anything, could be a sticker, people could actually fall for it.

Ian Misner: I do want to throw in there the loyalty perks and early access, I’m a huge fan of that sort of thing. And I would double down further and say the offer doesn’t actually have to be less than what was in their cart, you can present them with an offer that’s bigger, more expensive than what they left with, and sometimes that will actually convert better. It’s just, are you able to identify the value, is it the right customer segment for the right value you’re offering? And if you have a core product set that most people buy, and their cart contained items adjacent to that, you can send them a reminder that, hey, you might have missed that this is here, and that might help convert better as well. So it’s not always about saving more or giving them less, you could flat out say, this costs double but it might be what you really wanted, and some stores will find success with that.

Matias Mancheno: Agree 100%, and I would name it there, with the best intentions of the sentence, but gaslight the customer a little bit, just the best way to approach it.

Matt Zambrio: Yeah, I’m not going to lie, I’m definitely falling for that “get a free sticker if you order now,” I mean it’s a sticker, but I’m getting something for free, it’s better than nothing, and that pulls me in again, or at least piques my interest, I’m going to click, I’m going to go in, and next thing I know I’m down the rabbit hole.

Matias Mancheno: It’s only for the next five customers.

Matt Zambrio: Yeah. So next question I have, what role do tools like automation platforms, CRM, or analytics dashboards play in building these effective abandonment flows?

Ian Misner: Yeah, I do have a couple of thoughts on this, but I’m going to give Matias more space for this one, though I will say you definitely need something, but I do think the tooling isn’t the most important thing here, it is the time invested in experimentation and doing the work to try what’s best. Omnisend’s a great tool, our tool Checkout WC has some of the things you need to do these experiments as well, Mailchimp, Klaviyo, Groundhogg’s a cool tool, all of it works, it’s what tool feels right for you, what support experience, what company makes you feel like they’ve got your best interest at heart. They all do good work, though, but yeah, jump in, Matias.

Matias Mancheno: Yes, for both of us this is a matter of self-promotion a little bit, but the tools are there, and it happens because when we’re working here and you start touching ground with a lot of brands that have worked with other tools before, it doesn’t really change, there are things that are more difficult, things you win, things you lose. Things are probably more difficult elsewhere to set up and you don’t have the time to do it, so you need something quicker, simpler, some things in X platform are set up in a way you are not feeling comfortable with, in Y platform is a little different. So as Ian said, you find a way to feel more comfortable, but the strategy has to be there because you’re the one setting things up.

And you can test these tools, create an account in each of them and come with your conclusions on the plus and minus for each, but basically it comes up to what was the strategy you set before you were picking the tool. One thing you can do is come with a blank page and be like, okay, I’m going to create an account here and start selling from zero and I’ve never done it before, no strategy, no plan, and then you’re going to be reliant on what the platform can offer you, so this platform is suggesting me to do this, I’m going to do it, and then you are completely dependent on what you are being suggested, either by AI or by the recommendations that are personalized there, or even the human touch somebody can give you from that place.

But I would really advise, come with a plan, understand what your needs and necessities are, what exactly you want to achieve and how, and again, as Ian said, what is the extra value this company is giving you. I’m going to consider not only the tool itself, but the support they’re giving me, the information I can find about them online, and all the things that would make me self-sufficient. In general, the tools are there, I would encourage people to go out and investigate, invest time in understanding what their needs are mostly, and then I’m pretty sure the tool will come very quickly once you type that prompt into ChatGPT and say, I need to do this, which is the best tool, it’s going to give you five options and tell you, hey, this is probably the best way for you to go.

Ian Misner: So yes, the strategy, and I don’t want it to sound like a non-committal answer, but ultimately some of them, you won’t vibe with some of the tools, some of them feel clunky even though they’re great for other people, they’re all different, they all do a lot of the same things, as you even see with Matias and I with some of these earlier answers, we’re saying basically the same strategies, we’re probably executing on them fairly differently, the best practices are there regardless of what tool you use. I do want to tie it to the original question one time though, the analytics dashboards, make sure you like what they show you there, make sure those feel useful, because the measures you’re presented with are going to guide your experimentation more than anything else, and getting that wrong could do a lot of damage in the long run.

Matias Mancheno: And one extra advice, now that you mentioned that, be sure that you’re aware of what they are planning forward, because with the very fast-moving tech world nowadays, one platform might be very useful today but tomorrow another one that is 10 times more economical, or something that has never been in the market before and now it’s just there, even for free, and you can get the same results as before. So be aware of what’s the value that is coming along the line, what is the roadmap of that company, how committed are they to make the advancements you are requiring and pushing for, and understand how much they are listening to you and how committed they are to implementing those things.

Matt Zambrio: Gentlemen, this has been fantastic. We just have time for one more question, and this is a pretty easy one, so what are your thoughts about Prepathon and your experience as a guest speaker?

Ian Misner: No, sure, yeah, I mean, it’s fun. I appreciate the opportunity to jump in, I made a few notes, just been talking a bit, it’s been a lot of fun and I’ve checked out some of the other sessions, it’s a good time, thank you.

Matias Mancheno: Same for me. It’s very good to be out there, to know that we can reach more of the community here and understand that we are there for people too for any needs, and just put ourselves out there and get to know you guys too, Ian, Matt, and all the guys in backstage, we really are appreciating this and having fun with it too.

Matt Zambrio: Well, thank you, I really appreciate it, I didn’t expect to walk away learning so much, so thank you both for your time, hopefully the audience found this session as helpful as I did. With that said, next up we have the Ecom Showdown, the ultimate quiz battle hosted by Moeez, so stick around, he’ll be on in a couple minutes, thank you so much.